tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422944892527683969.post6591044370244089814..comments2023-10-13T03:04:59.079-06:00Comments on Flames From 80 Feet: One Man's Opinion: Time to Change the NHL's Ludicrous and Broken Point SystemDarren Hayneshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18313656680741630135noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422944892527683969.post-12796024913127297312017-01-05T20:44:36.236-07:002017-01-05T20:44:36.236-07:00Hi Darren. I believed the exact same thing, so I r...Hi Darren. I believed the exact same thing, so I re-did the standings using the point system you suggest and which I agree with. However, I was quite shocked to find out it made very little difference in the actual standings. Now that was a month ago, and maybe things have changed. Personally I always include OT losses combined with regulation losses to determine who the best teams are. Win differential between W's and OTL PLUS Reg. L often determines the best teams far more than total points in my opinion.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12544565335162238584noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422944892527683969.post-5318637279517369402017-01-05T14:20:18.882-07:002017-01-05T14:20:18.882-07:00Regarding the first argument, team records carry a...Regarding the first argument, team records carry asterisks so often anyway. 80 game seasons, 84 game seasons, 82 game seasons, 76 game seasons, 48 game lock-out seasons. There always has to be some sort of flattening out (or balancing) of the different years if you do want to compare and that already happens today. Plus, the addition of OT, shootout, no more ties has already wreaked havoc with team year-by-year comparisons. So yes, would be a bit dramatic to start, but not a reason not to do it as I see this issue existing already anyway.<br /><br />As for the shootout, you could treat those results the same as it is today and have a ROW column to distinguish Regulation/Overtime wins if you still felt that was a worthy tie-breaker, although I'd go regulation wins first, then OT wins, THEN shootout wins. You could lump the bottom two together as they'd have their own column but I know they wanted to diminish value of shootout wins so may want to stick with that plan still, thus we may have to track OT wins separate from shootout wings.<br /><br />Good thoughts, thanks for sharing.Darren Hayneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18313656680741630135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422944892527683969.post-5262105609383969582017-01-05T12:52:01.097-07:002017-01-05T12:52:01.097-07:00An argument I often hear (though that's not to...An argument I often hear (though that's not to say I agree with it) is that changing to the 3-point system would tarnish team scoring records. <br /><br />Another is that a team's shootout performance shouldn't dictate whether or not they make the playoffs and a loser-point can help in that regard. If anything this strengthens the argument for 3/2/1/0. Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02661644606833933626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422944892527683969.post-45238820497215377722017-01-04T19:57:41.194-07:002017-01-04T19:57:41.194-07:00Spreadsheets are quick and painless.
You're ...Spreadsheets are quick and painless. <br /><br />You're welcome, Darren. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18438408478240352390noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422944892527683969.post-56208151739958008752017-01-04T19:30:57.797-07:002017-01-04T19:30:57.797-07:00I don't like the 3 point system any more than ...I don't like the 3 point system any more than the current system. Let us start the change by awarding 2 points for the team that pots a goal in the OT period, 0 for the loser. If it is still tied, play another 5 minute OT with a Winner and a Loser should a Goal be scored. No goals scored and the game is declared a Tie. One point for each team.<br /><br />Three on three hockey is exciting and a second period of 3 on 3 hockey is preferable to shootouts and a loser point system.Jakenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422944892527683969.post-61917309336824485302017-01-04T15:34:10.626-07:002017-01-04T15:34:10.626-07:00Unfortunately, this would put a financial burden o...Unfortunately, this would put a financial burden on more talented, small market teams. Peanut Buster Parfaits in Canada are more expensive and bus fare for everyone would double the cost of winning. Teams like Arizona and Carolina would have no incentive to win as they don't have enough revenue from seat sales to recover the cost.Skippyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08822664384145637503noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422944892527683969.post-42074470429075005932017-01-04T15:25:52.580-07:002017-01-04T15:25:52.580-07:00NHL is stubborn? Can you give me a couple hundred ...NHL is stubborn? Can you give me a couple hundred examples. Actually, that would be too easy, never mind.<br /><br />As for records, so much has changed anyway when you talk history with team records in the old days based on ties, no OT, etc. Even individual records now, other than games played, are hard to compare given the different eras. But I do understand what you're saying and I won't be anxiously awaiting a new point system to kick in anytime soon. Cheers.Darren Hayneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18313656680741630135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422944892527683969.post-50549313297995871122017-01-04T15:21:22.398-07:002017-01-04T15:21:22.398-07:00Confirmed, the Coyotes and Avs are still dreadful....Confirmed, the Coyotes and Avs are still dreadful. (But seriously, thanks for donating your math time and posting the overall standings based on 3-point model.)Darren Hayneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18313656680741630135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422944892527683969.post-88710840858542618022017-01-04T15:19:32.131-07:002017-01-04T15:19:32.131-07:00Agreed, in terms of principle you are 100% right. ...Agreed, in terms of principle you are 100% right. However the NHL has, at times, shown a stubborn persistence to change things that break with tradition. The 1 point for a tie is a long standing NHL fixture. When regular season overtime came in, giving up the tie was not acceptable to the traditionalists, and doing it now causes some to worry that they are messing with tradition and records. The 3 point system is too radical for the decision making dinosaurs - and dropping the "tie" point is a non starter. It might change if ( a big IF) a significant team ( Leafs, Rangers) miss the playoffs to a team with 15 or more half wins. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12627479074429626917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422944892527683969.post-17166859347666137792017-01-04T15:19:13.724-07:002017-01-04T15:19:13.724-07:00OT or Shootout wins should definitely not be worth...OT or Shootout wins should definitely not be worth anything more. That's where I'd argue they should be worth less, if you are going to then reward a team for being tied after regulation. <br /><br />This also provides an added incentive to win in regulation, which could also promote some strategizing. The chance to pick up three points (versus none) on a team you're battling with in a playoff race could be huge. Heck, it could result in some pulling of the goalies in tie games down the stretch as teams try to get that regulation time win.<br /><br />The only way you can treat wins the same in my opinion is if you treat losses the same and again, dragging reality into it, I don't think the NHL is prepared to go away from at least rewarding a team a little bit for being tied through 60 minutes.Darren Hayneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18313656680741630135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422944892527683969.post-36836032660589232242017-01-04T15:13:07.932-07:002017-01-04T15:13:07.932-07:00Good thought, although while there may appear to b...Good thought, although while there may appear to be a more discernible line between buyers and sellers, that may be more perception than reality as gaps can close faster with three-point wins a possibility.<br /><br />But I do agree that if it promotes more teams pulling the plug and selling off players, a more active trade deadline always makes life more interesting. For me, anyway.Darren Hayneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18313656680741630135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422944892527683969.post-12258747649908079482017-01-04T15:11:02.415-07:002017-01-04T15:11:02.415-07:00It seems someone has graciously done that below. I...It seems someone has graciously done that below. I believe there is also a website that does this daily, or at least there used to be, which offered the standings in various types of point systems (there are others).<br /><br />The point I will repeat is I don't really care if the standings differ that much. That still doesn't make this point system logical. It makes no sense to inflate the value of some games, they should all be equal.Darren Hayneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18313656680741630135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422944892527683969.post-34294666206297624772017-01-04T15:10:17.476-07:002017-01-04T15:10:17.476-07:00Seriously though, I agree with your article. All g...Seriously though, I agree with your article. All games have to have the same value. KHL and IIHF both have the best/fairest system. If the NHL considered a 3 point system, Bettman would find a way to give both teams 3 points. Then all the games would sell out because everyone's favorite team is always in first place.Skippyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08822664384145637503noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422944892527683969.post-26837767638470171872017-01-04T15:08:08.681-07:002017-01-04T15:08:08.681-07:00But I would argue for a provision that states rath...But I would argue for a provision that states rather than surrendering a sportsmanship point for being so mean, a team can agree to the alternate punishment of taking the other team out to Dairy Queen after the game -- and not for a $0.99 burger either. An ice cream with a minimum $5 value.Darren Hayneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18313656680741630135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422944892527683969.post-12907074701231326692017-01-04T15:05:23.311-07:002017-01-04T15:05:23.311-07:00A couple thoughts:
1. Minimal impact is all it ma...A couple thoughts:<br /><br />1. Minimal impact is all it may take though for one team to make it on the coattails of a pile of half-wins, and one -- potentially more deserving team -- to not.<br /><br />2. Minimal impact is also not a reason to keep things the same if the model doesn't make sense, which I'd argue is the case here. All games have equal total value. It's what every other sports league does and what the IIHF does with hockey. It's the logical way it should be.Darren Hayneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18313656680741630135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422944892527683969.post-21571677558463500182017-01-04T14:49:51.648-07:002017-01-04T14:49:51.648-07:00Last year 21 teams had between 7 and 11 "half...Last year 21 teams had between 7 and 11 "half wins", so the effect on the standings was minimal. The last 3 years - the biggest half winners were non playoff teams anyway, Carolina last year with 16 and Philadelphia and New jersey the 2 years before with 18Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12627479074429626917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422944892527683969.post-70487414659218708632017-01-04T14:36:24.574-07:002017-01-04T14:36:24.574-07:00Columbus Blue Jackets 79
New York Rangers 76
Pitts...Columbus Blue Jackets 79<br />New York Rangers 76<br />Pittsburgh Penguins 75<br />Montreal Canadiens 71<br />Minnesota Wild 69<br />Washington Capitals 68<br />Chicago Blackhawks 67<br />San Jose Sharks 65<br />Anaheim Ducks 63<br />Boston Bruins 60<br />St. Louis Blues 60<br />Edmonton Oilers 60<br />Ottawa Senators 58<br />Tampa Bay Lightning 58<br />Philadelphia Flyers 57<br />Calgary Flames 57<br />Toronto Maple Leafs 54<br />Nashville Predators 54<br />Los Angeles Kings 53<br />Dallas Stars 53<br />Winnipeg Jets 52<br />Carolina Hurricanes 51<br />Vancouver Canucks 48<br />Florida Panthers 48<br />New Jersey Devils 48<br />New York Islanders 48<br />Buffalo Sabres 47<br />Detroit Red Wings 45<br />Colorado Avalanche 33<br />Arizona Coyotes 33<br /><br />Should be about right.<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18438408478240352390noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422944892527683969.post-14956912987786161892017-01-04T14:35:03.080-07:002017-01-04T14:35:03.080-07:00Maybe teams should only get one point for winning ...Maybe teams should only get one point for winning a game by more than two goals. This would discourage them from making the other team sad.Skippyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08822664384145637503noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422944892527683969.post-15487220164675340842017-01-04T13:49:23.762-07:002017-01-04T13:49:23.762-07:00Is it possible to see what the standings (this yea...Is it possible to see what the standings (this year and last year) would be like if the 3 point system were in place?Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14820627497913971661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422944892527683969.post-7034324001646393782017-01-04T13:01:32.438-07:002017-01-04T13:01:32.438-07:00Not to mention how it could impact the trade deadl...Not to mention how it could impact the trade deadline. Can you imagine if there was a much more discernible line between the buyers and sellers come trade deadline, how much more activity we might see. Trades are good for the league, they generate publicity. The salary cap has all but killed trades, so why not help out the trade market a bit.Justinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422944892527683969.post-6315060315324293372017-01-04T12:49:33.524-07:002017-01-04T12:49:33.524-07:00You say getting rid of the loser point is unrealis...You say getting rid of the loser point is unrealistic. If we disregard realism and look at the ideal, wouldn't it be better to just have the standings by win%, regardless of how you win? In the words of Justin Trudeau, "a win is a win is a win" (or something like that). If a game goes to OT or SO, it should not be worth anything more. It's just an extra opportunity to decide a close game.<br /><br />Sports are competitive, so imo wins should be all that matter. There should be no compensation for teams that strategize to take it past regulation.<br /><br />It's ridiculous that the Flames are 2nd in win-loss record in the division yet are 5th in current pt%.Brodano12https://www.blogger.com/profile/02109022811660006360noreply@blogger.com